Interesting Cluster issue

S

SeductiveSound

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Posts
14
2004 Envoy SLE
Auto Trans
4x4
160,000Kms

I haven't had my truck all that long, and I have noticed some very weird happenings with the cluster. Warning lights will be on, gas gauge will be at empty and light will be on, ABS and parking brake lights on, battery light, MIL, Passlock and a couple others.
I can start the truck with the key, or with the remote starter and I end up with this happening.
Won't happen every time either. Turn it off, re-start and its totally fine.
Had it hooked up to a tech2 after pulling weird codes with my inexpensive universal reader. P3332, P3239.
While on the tech2 there were several communication losses on the Class 2 Databus, which I'm somewhat concerned about.
Technician that scanned it, said it could be the ignition switch, weak battery, or a host of other things because of aftermarket equipment (BS)

If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do, or look for that would be great.
Here is a video of what's been happening:
Photobucket Video
 
SeductiveSound said:
2004 Envoy SLE
Auto Trans
4x4
160,000Kms

I haven't had my truck all that long, and I have noticed some very weird happenings with the cluster. Warning lights will be on, gas gauge will be at empty and light will be on, ABS and parking brake lights on, battery light, MIL, Passlock and a couple others.
I can start the truck with the key, or with the remote starter and I end up with this happening.
Won't happen every time either. Turn it off, re-start and its totally fine.
Had it hooked up to a tech2 after pulling weird codes with my inexpensive universal reader. P3332, P3239.
While on the tech2 there were several communication losses on the Class 2 Databus, which I'm somewhat concerned about.
Technician that scanned it, said it could be the ignition switch, weak battery, or a host of other things because of aftermarket equipment (BS)

If anyone has any suggestions on what I can do, or look for that would be great.
Here is a video of what's been happening:
Click to expand...

Usually, in cases like this, we will suggest replacing the ignition switch, as it's relatively inexpensive, easy to do, and they do fail more often than you'd think. Another thing that factors in, is aftermarket equipment that ties into the computer systems, such as a remote start like you have. First thing I would try, if you're handy, is disconnect the remote start and see if your issue goes away. How old is your battery, or do you know? You can always get it load tested to make sure it's still good to rule that out. :twocents:

Can you double check those DTC codes you pulled? Did the tech II read those same ones?
 
I don't see it being an ignition switch issue, as it happens with the remote starter as well as the key, remote starter bypasses the ignition switch.
I have pulled all the aftermarket databus interface modules, still happening.
I installed the remote starter and stereo system, I do them for a living.

I had the battery load tested today, it passed, I would prefer it was a little stronger, but a 400A load it dipped to 10.5V over 15Sec.

I think I am going to check the grounds for the ABS system and the Cluster.
I've downloaded the service manual, just need to scan through to find the ground point

I double checked the codes as well, that's what my little universal reader pulled.
Visited a buddy and used his reader, which is much better than mine and pulled these:
U1301
U1041
P0410
U1026
There was one more, but the reader spit out this message:
"The fault code is not found in the database"
 
My cluster did all kinds of weird things when the ignition switch went bad (all 4 times). Yes, I'm on my 5th ignition switch in the 9 years I've had my TB.
 
My gauge cluster was doing similar stuff and it was because my data bus lost communication with my EBCM. I replaced the ignition switch, no change. In my case, I had just bought the truck and the last owner disconnected the EBCM so I wouldnt know it had a bad ABS sensor in the right front wheel (ABS telltale illuminated & ABS would engage under 10mph). I plugged it back in, replaced my front wheel hub and life has been good ever since!! The cluster hasn't acted up at all since.

VERY Interesting that you have the "Lost communication with EBCM" code too... Might want to get under the truck and check the connections and your ground (VERY common issue).
 
SeductiveSound said:
Location of the EBCM?
I'll be checking out at the shop tomorrow, it's a bit of a slow day for me.
Click to expand...

The ECBM is right under the drivers side door, right inside the frame. Take the wiring harnesses out and check for corrosion, clean if necessary, protect with dielectric grease, reinstall. Sometimes just removing and re-seating the plugs is enough.

There is a ground wire on the frame. Dont trust it just by looks - remove the bolt/screw, clean it REALLY good with a wire brush, reinstall it. Some people spray paint over it with rubber undercoat or rustoleum to protect it further.
 
Fantastic. Thanks.

Grounds are very important and I will most definitely be sure to clean it very well.
I do hope this is my issue, the ABS and brake lights are always the first to come on.

And I had a bit of an extra braking situation today, and there was NO abs in the rain, just locked up........ya not good.
Thankfully it was me driving and not my wife with the kids.
 
The EBCM ground was horrible.
The bolt took a bit of coaxing to come out.

I've cleaned it up, put a new ring terminal, solder and shrink tube on it.
Should help out a little bit.

Also took some time to clean up the ground in the centre console on the passenger side foot well.
I'll report back in a couple days to see if I am still having my cluster problem.
 
SeductiveSound said:
The EBCM ground was horrible.
The bolt took a bit of coaxing to come out.

I've cleaned it up, put a new ring terminal, solder and shrink tube on it.
Should help out a little bit.

Also took some time to clean up the ground in the centre console on the passenger side foot well.
I'll report back in a couple days to see if I am still having my cluster problem.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup: Good luck, I hope this resolves the problem!
 
SeductiveSound said:
What a pain this is becoming.
Click to expand...
Structured troubleshooting without having all the high end equipment can indeed look like a slow and frustrating process. But it's a way to save $$. You could always take it to a shop and throw $100 bills at them until their three kids are through dental school.

:rotfl:

Seriously, if it's not the ignition switch, then the next possibility I'd think about is some OTHER module besides your aftermarket stuff is jabbering on the data bus and the gauge cluster is seeing those bogus messages and displaying garbage on the lights and gauges. That's a more involved project that requires pulling modules off the data bus by getting at the two "splice packs" that are meant specifically for this sort of problem. Could be an intermittent short to ground by any wire in the data communication signal path, or a bad module like the PDM, DDM, LGM, HVAC, radio, XM, TCCM, etc, etc.
 
you might want to back up a bit with your "history story". You didn't really indicate when "things" started happening. Were they present when you first got the vehicle? When did they start showing up?

Looks almost like a "bulb check" / loss of power sequence.
 
It started within a week of me getting the truck.
I got the truck in late August.
I can go several days/starts and get nothing, other days its every start.

I installed the full audio system and the alarm/starter system the day after I got the truck.
I have since pulled the modules to verify they are not the issue.
I have check, cleaned and re-seated several grounds.

I need to read up on the splice packs for more diagnosis into this issue.
I haven't yet priced out a new ignition switch, seems that most parts for this truck are $400 at the dealers near me.
 
You can get a new ignition switch at your local Autozone for like 40 bucks.

These computerized systems can be hard to track down sometimes. My TCCM went bad, apparently spewing garbage on the data bus, which would randomly cause my radio to shut down and be totally useless until I turned off the truck. Go figure! I would never have thought that could happen, but it did. These "smart" modules everywhere can really go into full retard mode pretty darn easily at times it seems :crazy:

Just goes to show you can never rule out anything causing something else to happen anymore. Makes troubleshooting that much more fun :blinkhuh:
 
I'm north of the boarder guys, in the great white north.
Everything costs us a little more up here.

I downloaded the service manual, hopefully that might be able to shed a little light on the splice packs.
I have a little down time tomorrow at the shop so hopefully I'll be able to tackle a little bit of it.
 
Does it sound as though the starter runs on a bit shortly before the lights do their thing? Are any of your dials maxed out on a quasi-regular basis? I've had both issues, one corrected, the other one - that you mention - not.

While I have a great mechanic (that suggests that I light a fire under the thing ('04 Envoy)), he is more willing to try to find a cost effective solution. Right now, I'm trying to find a cheap way to replace the PCM (according to my last e-test, something that our friends south of the border may know little about) it's finito.
 
SeductiveSound said:
I got the truck in late August.

I installed the full audio system and the alarm/starter system the day after I got the truck.
Click to expand...

Experience has taught me that the probability that the issue lies with these is high. Remove the fuses that feed the remote start and alarm and the ignition BYPASS module. Also disconnect any wires connected to the purple wire at the obd2 connector under the dash. Keep them disabled like this for the entire duration of your troubleshooting until the fault is found. Dont reconnect them at any time thinking they arent the problem until you are done. What this does is keeps your troubleshooting focused on other things.
 
Alright so I've pretty well gone and done everything less than the splice packs.

How can I go about doing the diagnosis on them?
Do I pull out pins? or is it more complicated than that?

What is the process for doing it?
I don't have a tech2 or easy access to one to do the troubleshooting.

Within the last week, everything has been getting worse.
The entire gauge cluster will die, restart, repeat this a few times and then be fine.
The ABS/Parking Brake lights, virtually never go off.
Sparatic Passlock, Service 4WD, Battery, Oil lights.

I've checked and serviced the grounds for the PCM, EBCM, Cluster.
 
I just wanted check to see if it was going to be ok if I did it that way.

I am I going to ok pulling say the EBCM and driving?
I realize its the brake control module.
 
HI !
I have this dash bug since almost 2 years now but never figured what was the cause of it... at this time, is there a FINAL answer for this problem ???
I'm waiting for 2 stepper motor to replace my oil and speedo gauge and if there is something to do or check to the cluster while it is removed, I would like to know what to do so I don't remove it twice.

Many people come in forums for this but no solution yet. Thanks for your answers.:thumbsup:

Sorry for my bad english...
 
did you look for corrosion on the back of an instrument cluster circuit board yet? That was the solution to my problems and I've been trouble free since. Check the links posted above by Link.
 
Thanks...
I'll be looking when I receive my steppers but I just wanted to make sure there was no other solutions to this bug. It's on my to-do list. :thumbsup:
 
Hi !
I'm still waiting for my steppers and today a new bug appeared... After the standard cluster issue (many lights on , gauges not working etc...)
Now when I came back home today I stopped for 5 minutes then restart the TB and nothing was working in the cluster, all dead except I could read millage when button pressed once and all background lights were working and just as I arrived home, everything came back as usual (Christmas cluster).

Is there a new place to look for with this new issue ?

Thank again. (should have my steppers in 1 week.)
 
...Forgot to say that the temperature inside the truck (not sure) is acting on the cluster. Here it's winter and after long ride with heater blower on, the cluster begins to return to normal operation then bugs again like this up and down till it stops and act normally but if I stop and let it cool then it comes back again....:crazy:
 
Now my steppers are changed and i saw corrosion on the cluster board so I cleaned it with toothbrush and rubbing alcohol AFTER replacing steppers then went back in the truck for test before reassembling the cluster and everything was ok. You can clearly see corrosion making contact with small lines on the board so my guess is... humidity when cold outside makes the better contact with corrosion and after long ride and heating inside the truck, humidity dries the my cluster would come back to normal operation and this everyday since cold weather came in. Thats my guess but it looks logical to me.

Other people had corrosion to and after cleaning the board the problem was gone so give it a try people. If the problem is back then I'll come here to tell you.

For now my problem is SOLVED after 2 long years of searching the solution.

Cya.
 
budwich said:
gets some dielectric grease on those contacts to stop the corrosion.
Click to expand...

YES I agree it '' will '' come back, easier than before since it is good and clean and no film at all on some spots. Like budwich said dielectric grease or CRC makes and spray on dielectric oil for coating circuit boards that works well.

And always try the cheapest and easiest things first .
 
Yeah I should have done it but next time I remove the cluster I will do it. Still no signs of problem and everything is fine.
 
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