1st gear not working or.....

[tragicride]

A couple months ago i noticed a problem with my engine wanting to rev a little high.....ruled that out as a clutch-fan...... then my ignition cylinder went out, couldn't get it fixed for 2 days, when i did get it fixed then this clusterF$%&ck of a problem happen. ( while it was down for 2 days ) backed out of the drive way ( did fine in reverse ) put it in drive and had to put the pedal to floor to get any kind of speed..... so when putting it through the gears manually i then found that it wasn't going into 1st. would hardly move. go through the gears and it still takes to much to move it in any gear, ( shifting late with speed ) but it also seems its not getting enough RPM's to change gears,... at first i thought it was a catalytic converter so i punched the guts out of it and that didn't do it so now im thinking it may be shift solenoid A or shift solenoid B. ........ any help please ? i cant afford to take it to the shop so i have to do this myself

 

[gmcman]

Need more info on engine, miles, service history...especially the transmission.

When you say the engine wanted to rev a little high, was this while driving or idling? Did you check the trans fluid? Should be somewhat red or pinkish not brown and burned smelling. Does the vehicle pull from a stop in 2nd? Place selector in 2nd physically. Do you have any service engine lights or reduced power lights on the dash?

 

[tragicride]

Need more info on engine, miles, service history...especially the transmission.

When you say the engine wanted to rev a little high, was this while driving or idling? Did you check the trans fluid? Should be somewhat red or pinkish not brown and burned smelling. Does the vehicle pull from a stop in 2nd? Place selector in 2nd physically. Do you have any service engine lights or reduced power lights on the dash?

i6 197k miles. had a new engine put in when i first got it 10 yrs ago. service engine light stays on. i checked all fluids, are fine.. when i put it in first it will go but u have to give it a good bit of gas to go.... but while moveing if i put it in first then to 2nd there is no deference so i dont think first is ever working, it does have a high wind to it in idle but not to bad really, mainly in gear..... oh and servise 4wd light is on and the 4wd button isnt lit upView attachment 30583

 

[gmcman]

Well, to start I wouldn't try revving it anymore with it not wanting to move....don't chance frying a clutch pack. Surely looks like some electrical issues and very well could be the shift solenoid. If that were mine, I would either pay someone to hook up a Tech II and try to pin down the problem or replace the shift solenoid.

I believe the solenoids are interchangeable and there are 2, side by side once you pull the pan. You could swap them and see if it moves in 1st, if so then just replace the faulty unit. This would be the cheapest route.

Just pull the retaining ring next to each solenoid to remove, solenoid takes a firm push to set back in position.

 

[gmcman]

I wonder if a re-flash could cure this, trans could be in limp mode.

 

[seanpooh]

Transmission has a limp mode?

 

[gmcman]

Transmission has a limp mode?

I have heard of a limp-mode, would think it would throw a code but I found this on another site, may not pertain to our platform but does apply to the 4L60E. OP would need to verify this but just an idea.


"limp-home mode: This is a fault mode in which the transmission either loses electrical power or the PCM deactivates all of the electronics.
The transmission will default to max line pressure. The driver will have Reverse and 3rd, with manual 2nd available by putting the gearshift in 2 or 1 (doesn't matter).
1st, 4th, and TCC lockup will not be available. It will not hurt the car to drive it like this for short periods, but use manual 2nd to get the car moving,
and be aware that the trans will generate more heat than normal while operating in limp-home mode due to increased torque converter slippage during 2nd gear starts and no lockup in 3rd gear."

 

[tragicride]

ok... what is a re-flash ? the wife has to drive it to work every day.......id say bout 30 miles one way and we do manually shift it for now.....

 

[Mooseman]

Has the fluid change in the transfer case been kept up? It has a relatively low interval (50k miles) and if not done, can damage it and exhibit issues like you are experiencing. The clue is also the service 4x4 light.

The Roadie is the authority on this subject so hopefully he will chime in.

 

[tragicride]

Has the fluid change in the transfer case been kept up? It has a relatively low interval (50k miles) and if not done, can damage it and exhibit issues like you are experiencing. The clue is also the service 4x4 light.

The Roadie is the authority on this subject so hopefully he will chime in.

i hope the Roadie does chime in then,,,,, i have not checked xfercase fluid...... guess i need to find out how to do this.. guys im old school. this newer stuff is giving me a headache

 

[tragicride]

btw.. this did happen as it sat over night....

i think i narrowed it down to these codes...
P1860
P0785
P0740
P1860

Now i know one could lead the other to pop up so wtf do i do ?

 

[MAY03LT]

P0785 3-2 SS valve assembly circuit
P0740 TCC solenoid valve circuit
P1860 TCC PWM solenoid valve circuit

One of the pics showed P0758 (2-3 SS valve circuit), and I'm going to guess that it also has P0753 (1-2 SS valve circuit).

All of those components share the IGN 0 fuse which is in the rear fuse block. That fuse should have battery voltage (on both sides) with the key in ACC, on, or cranking. If it does have power there, then the next step would be to check for power at the big connector at the trans itself. If it doesn't have power on that fuse, the next step will be different.

Statistically, no one has cooked all 5 at once. Circuit 1020, which runs from the rear fuse block, to the front fuse block, and then to the trans has been the fault every time. I think the last one I saw was a mouse ate the wiring at the trans connector including 1020. Other causes were remote start install errors, ignition switch install errors, and I think one guy accidentally cut that wire at the rear fuse block while running wires for an amp.

 

[gmcman]

One of the pics showed P0758 (2-3 SS valve circuit), and I'm going to guess that it also has P0753 (1-2 SS valve circuit).

All of those components share the IGN 0 fuse which is in the rear fuse block. That fuse should have battery voltage (on both sides) with the key in ACC, on, or cranking. If it does have power there, then the next step would be to check for power at the big connector at the trans itself. If it doesn't have power on that fuse, the next step will be different.

Statistically, no one has cooked all 5 at once. Circuit 1020, which runs from the rear fuse block, to the front fuse block, and then to the trans has been the fault every time. I think the last one I saw was a mouse ate the wiring at the trans connector including 1020. Other causes were remote start install errors, ignition switch install errors, and I think one guy accidentally cut that wire at the rear fuse block while running wires for an amp.

That would be great if this is fuse related.

 

[tragicride]

ALL of my fuses are good.....

 

[MAY03LT]

That would be great if this is fuse related.

I know right. Or at least a mouse causing obvious damage.

ALL of my fuses are good.....

So the one labeled IGN 0 in the rear fuse block has battery voltage on both sides with the key in ACC or On, correct? It's important that this is accurate.

 

[chief0299]

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[tragicride]

I know right. Or at least a mouse causing obvious damage.



So the one labeled IGN 0 in the rear fuse block has battery voltage on both sides with the key in ACC or On, correct? It's important that this is accurate.

i will find this out tomorrow...... and if theres no voltage then what?

 

[MAY03LT]

i will find this out tomorrow...... and if theres no voltage then what?

We get to test more stuff!:wootwoot:

If there is no voltage on the IGN 0 fuse with the key in ACC or on, then we work our way back to the white wire at the ignition switch.

 

[tragicride]

We get to test more stuff!:wootwoot:

If there is no voltage on the IGN 0 fuse with the key in ACC or on, then we work our way back to the white wire at the ignition switch.

It sure makes sense in a way that it could be linked to the weird shift problem sense the shift problem didnt occur untill the ignition cylinder locked up then replaced

 

[The_Roadie]

Sorry, I've been on vacation and not onthe site every day. Looks like you're getting good advice. Looking at fuses is not a good way to test the circuit if it's not getting fed by an UPSTREAM fuse, and there are two funny "J-case" fuses in the ignition switch circuits.

 

[tragicride]

Sorry, I've been on vacation and not onthe site every day. Looks like you're getting good advice. Looking at fuses is not a good way to test the circuit if it's not getting fed by an UPSTREAM fuse, and there are two funny "J-case" fuses in the ignition switch circuits.

Hello Roadie.... i am trying to find out which code is the problem without having to throw parts at it untill its fixed. so far it seems like a shift solenoid. i did check power to the fuse 47. it was getting juice . im lost

 

[gmcman]

I would go back to the ignition switch for now...I haven't replaced one so my knowledge is very limited there, but could a wire be damaged, shorted, bad switch? Seems the ignition switch can cause a myriad of issues and perhaps this caused an issue downstream....dunno. Other than that don't forget about trying swapping shift solenoids.

 

[tragicride]

i looked over all the wired very carefully and didnt find anything. would the ignition switch itself cause problems like this? it didnt happen until the ignition cyclinder was replaced

 

[gmcman]

i looked over all the wired very carefully and didnt find anything. would the ignition switch itself cause problems like this? it didnt happen until the ignition cyclinder was replaced

I dont have the ign switch schematic but i would get a multimeter and check the wires for proper voltage, dont use a test lamp. I would start there since it sounds like its not sending voltage somewhere. If the switch check out then you could diagnose further downstream.

- - - Updated - - -

i looked over all the wired very carefully and didnt find anything. would the ignition switch itself cause problems like this? it didnt happen until the ignition cyclinder was replaced

I dont have the ign switch schematic but i would get a multimeter and check the wires for proper voltage, dont use a test lamp. I would start there since it sounds like its not sending voltage somewhere. If the switch check out then you could diagnose further downstream.

- - - Updated - - -

i looked over all the wired very carefully and didnt find anything. would the ignition switch itself cause problems like this? it didnt happen until the ignition cyclinder was replaced

I dont have the ign switch schematic but i would get a multimeter and check the wires for proper voltage, dont use a test lamp. I would start there since it sounds like its not sending voltage somewhere. If the switch check out then you could diagnose further downstream.

 

[gmcman]

My cell gets fixed on tuesday...lol

 

[tragicride]

i got the meter to test with but i have no idea what is good or bad as far the voltage of the wires go.....

 

[MAY03LT]

it didnt happen until the ignition cyclinder was replaced

Oh damn. If you posted this earlier I'm sorry I missed it.

The reason that fuse 47 should be tested, is because it's the easiest way to narrow down the possibilities. Since the truck starts, the fuse that feeds the ignition switch (IGN A) is not suspected, and knowing the voltage at fuse 47 in the rear fuse block will confirm where to go next.

Like gmcman suggests, the voltage at both sides of fuse 47 should be measured with a DMM with the key in ACC or ON.

I don't have a picture of fuse 47 being tested, and this is on the front fuse block, but this is an example of what I'm looking for. The negative lead of the meter is grounded, and the tip of the positive lead is touching the top of the fuse to get the voltage while the key is in ACC or ON. Get both sides of the fuse. The studs of the rear fuse block, which I do not have a picture of, work as a place to ground your meter at.

As far as a voltage, we're looking for close to battery voltage, so let's say anywhere from 12.1 to 12.6v.

 

[tragicride]

i did check fuse 47 and has just a little more then 12v. but only on one side.....i pulled the fuse to test tho,.,, btw. fue 47 on mine is in a slightly diff location then here in this pic...... sure that doesnt matter

 

[tragicride]

Bump...anything ? ?

 

[tragicride]

Oh damn. If you posted this earlier I'm sorry I missed it.

The reason that fuse 47 should be tested, is because it's the easiest way to narrow down the possibilities. Since the truck starts, the fuse that feeds the ignition switch (IGN A) is not suspected, and knowing the voltage at fuse 47 in the rear fuse block will confirm where to go next.

Like gmcman suggests, the voltage at both sides of fuse 47 should be measured with a DMM with the key in ACC or ON.

I don't have a picture of fuse 47 being tested, and this is on the front fuse block, but this is an example of what I'm looking for. The negative lead of the meter is grounded, and the tip of the positive lead is touching the top of the fuse to get the voltage while the key is in ACC or ON. Get both sides of the fuse. The studs of the rear fuse block, which I do not have a picture of, work as a place to ground your meter at.

As far as a voltage, we're looking for close to battery voltage, so let's say anywhere from 12.1 to 12.6v.

Hey i guess i overlooked it somehow but FUSE 47 is Not getting juice to both sides.....so what do i do now? ? ? ?

 

[gmcman]

Hey i guess i overlooked it somehow but FUSE 47 is Not getting juice to both sides.....so what do i do now? ? ? ?

Fuse 47 from what I understand is tied into the ignition lock solenoid, something is amiss with your lock cylinder and since all this happened when you replaced the lock cylinder I would look there. I don't know where the wires go but is this part of the ignition switch?

I don't know where the hot comes from to feed #47.

 

[gmcman]

I didn't want to edit but I just read that #47 powers the encoder motors on the transfer case....is this true?

 

[tragicride]

SOLVED HAHAHAHA ok get this..... me and two other people looked over EVERY fuse in both boxes......fuse 47 was blown right at the stud inside of the fuse. almost couldnt be seen with they eye......its fixed now and once again i want to thank you all for the good advice....... now i need to fix my exhaust...... and new windshield and new clutchfan. thanks again u guys

 

[The_Roadie]

The 4WD system gets power for the TCCM and the encoder motor from front fuse #8. The front axle actuator on the splined disconnect is controlled by the TCCM, but gets its power from rear fuse #48.

IGN 0, rear fuse #47, is fed by front J-case fuse #34, by way of the ignition switch ACCY/RUN/START switch position (white wire at the ignition switch). The ACCY/RUN/START switch position also feeds a body controller rear fuse #50

Downstream from IGN 0 are circuits that feed:
Shift Lever
Four solenoids in the transmission
One circuit on the PCM

 

[The_Roadie]

SOLVED HAHAHAHA ok get this..... me and two other people looked over EVERY fuse in both boxes......fuse 47 was blown right at the stud inside of the fuse. almost couldnt be seen with they eye......

Thanks for the update, but it proves YET AGAIN that there is no substitute for a meter on the continuity/resistance function to reliably check fuses. Relays can't be checked by shaking them, and fuses should not be checked visually. Or else the time wastage is immense. Glad you're running.

 

[gmcman]

The 4WD system gets power for the TCCM and the encoder motor from front fuse #8. The front axle actuator on the splined disconnect is controlled by the TCCM, but gets its power from rear fuse #48.

IGN 0, rear fuse #47, is fed by front J-case fuse #34, by way of the ignition switch ACCY/RUN/START switch position (white wire at the ignition switch). The ACCY/RUN/START switch position also feeds a body controller rear fuse #50

Downstream from IGN 0 are circuits that feed:
Shift Lever
Four solenoids in the transmission
One circuit on the PCM

Awesome, thanks.

SOLVED HAHAHAHA ok get this..... me and two other people looked over EVERY fuse in both boxes......fuse 47 was blown right at the stud inside of the fuse. almost couldnt be seen with they eye......its fixed now and once again i want to thank you all for the good advice....... now i need to fix my exhaust...... and new windshield and new clutchfan. thanks again u guys

That's great news...did you not disconnect the battery before you started wrenching on electrical items.....

But in your defense.....if the HVAC actuators weren't so fragile it's almost a wash in taking a chance. They reset after battery power is removed so luckily in your case it was just a fuse.

 

[MAY03LT]

SOLVED HAHAHAHA ok get this..... me and two other people looked over EVERY fuse in both boxes......fuse 47 was blown right at the stud inside of the fuse. almost couldnt be seen with they eye......its fixed now and once again i want to thank you all for the good advice....... now i need to fix my exhaust...... and new windshield and new clutchfan. thanks again u guys

Thanks for taking the time to update us with the fix!

This is why we have people do certain things that might not make sense. If we would have suggested replacing the ignition switch (for a second time if I'm reading the history right), or any of the shift solenoids, at the end of the day fuse 47 would still have been blown.

 

[tragicride]

Im just blowed away on the fuse. .. I looked at them all a few times over and so did another friend but like the Roadie says. Anyway its a hell of relief. Now for the Clutch-Fan

 

[gmcman]

This is why we have people do certain things that might not make sense. If we would have suggested replacing the ignition switch (for a second time if I'm reading the history right), or any of the shift solenoids, at the end of the day fuse 47 would still have been blown.

I completely agree, and actually following up on what is asked to perform, while it doesn't necessarily apply to this thread, is important. There have been threads where tasks have been asked and no response was given until days later.

Props to the OP for following through and thoroughly checking everything again, and MAYO3 on rechecking the fuses.

Hello Roadie.... i am trying to find out which code is the problem without having to throw parts at it untill its fixed. so far it seems like a shift solenoid. i did check power to the fuse 47. it was getting juice . im lost

ALL of my fuses are good.....

This threw me off but good that this was pursued even further. Not bashing the OP but following through again was paramount, saved yourself some dough.


Good thing you didn't get messy and swap shift solenoid leads. That being me, I would not have thought at the time that a fuse would have caused the symptoms you described and I would have swapped solenoid leads since it was cheap and simple then went after the fuses. Learn something all the time with these vehicles and their complexity with the wiring.

This is a good thread, I learned something.

 

[RPJ 03 Envoy X]

I had the same chain of problems with my '03 XL. It started witht the blower resistor going bad on the way home from work, since it was late at night and cold, I just unhooked the batter. I found the fuse and unhooked the next day. On the third day, REP light and transmission issues. I changed a few parts thinking it was the electronic throttle control. It has been down since winter. I purchased a code reader and searched the site for the transmission codes and nothing mentioned the rear fuse block. I changed the IG switch, checked and rechecked front fuses. I was at a loss and was trying to figure out how to change transmission electronics without spending alot of money. I will check this fuse tonight or tomorrow.