Help!! Engine died!

B

BlackInk

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Posts
21
Here's what's going on: there is a sound like the fan is ticking like the water pump bearings are shot. Trying to get it home the noise was crazy and I was losing acceleration. As I was pulling in, the oil pressure dipped and the engine died.

It's a 2004 XUV long wheelbase 4x4. Is this a water pump issue?? Is there more going on?

Please help!!!

Also, I can start the engine now but the sound of the fan clacking is still there.
 
I6 or V8? Is there oil pressure on the gauge? Oil on the dipstick?
 
Wooluf1952 said:
:tiphat: Welcome:tiphat:

In case you haven't heard:
http://gmtnation.com/f5/welcome-gmtnation-com-heres-story-226/

Filling out your truck info will help us eliminate some problems.

Were there any CEL's lit up?
With the engine OFF, can you wiggle the fan?
If you remove the serpentine belt and start the engine, is the noise still there?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I am a member over at trailvoy but hadn't had any issues in awhile...someone suggested coming over here. Love what you've done with the place. :biggrin:

The fan had a very slight wiggle. I'm in the middle of replacing the fan clutch, water pump and power steer pump (it was on it a last legs for some time now. Engaged at higher rpms).

I'm hoping this does it, as they probably needed it anyway (140,000 on her). Cleaned the throttle body and swapped plugs about a year ago.

Just really don't want it to be something else if the symptoms sound familiar.
 
I will say, the last time I started it before tearing it apart the whole engine looked like it was shaking. It was shifting fine, but the acceleration was horrible.

Also, the water pump looks ok...

I'm stumped.
 
Any check engine light at all? Engine shaking, loss of power, etc sounds like misfiring to me, but something that bad should make the light at least glow if not flash at you.
 
The shaking and loss of power... Sparky is on the right track. Also, when was the last time you filled up the tank? Any chance it could have had E15 or E85 put in there? There could be a chance of the wrong or just bad gas put in the tank if this started just after your last fill up.
 
The check engine light came on a couple of times over the last two weeks but goes off shortly after and stays off long enough for me to forget about it. The clacking has been going on for about a month (don't judge I've been crazy busy) but hadn't gotten any worse and I was going to get the code read this week.

The shaking and major noise happened coming back from the in laws about 100 miles away. Happened about 60 miles in.

This didn't happen just after a fill up, so I do t think it's bad gas. Though it acts that way.
 
BlackInk said:
The check engine light came on a couple of times over the last two weeks but goes off shortly after and stays off long enough for me to forget about it. The clacking has been going on for about a month (don't judge I've been crazy busy) but hadn't gotten any worse and I was going to get the code read this week.

The shaking and major noise happened coming back from the in laws about 100 miles away. Happened about 60 miles in.

This didn't happen just after a fill up, so I do t think it's bad gas. Though it acts that way.
Click to expand...

It went from a ticking to a clacking? Runs rough, shakes...

Pull the plugs and do a compression check. Rent or buy the cylinder leak down tester and do a leak down check.

You can also check with simple tools to see if you may have spun a rod bearing and the noise is the rod rattling around on the crank journal. With the plugs pulled, rotate the motor by hand until the front piston is at the top. Then rotate the motor just slightly past to where the piston starts to go down. Stick an extremely long 3/8" ratchet extension (at least 12" long) into the hole and push down on the piston. It should move the rotating mass smoothly. If you feel a slight drop and then the mass starts to rotate, well... there's a problem. Start with the front cylinder and work your way to the back.
 
Ok. I've got the beast back together and no luck, though the steering is fixed.

How do I do a compression check? The simple tool method went right over my head.
 
BlackInk said:
Ok. I've got the beast back together and no luck, though the steering is fixed.

How do I do a compression check? The simple tool method went right over my head.
Click to expand...

Your local auto parts store sells the kit for right around $20. It's got an attachment that screws into the spark plug hole, a hose and a guage. Remove all the plugs and one by one screw it into each hole. It will help to have someone with you to turn the motor over with the key.

GMCMan did a great job in this thread with info.

Also, search the forum for 'engine knock'. Lots of good info.
 
Could this be as simple as a bad spark plug?

Gonna grab a compression test on the way home from my oldest's football game.
 
Get a code reader. Sometimes the code will be stored as a pending code. If there is one it will be a lot easier than guessing.

Can you get a video of the sound and engine shaking. That can help some.

If the claking is what your talking bout, it more be a more serious issue. Drop oil in there till the fill Mark since you said it was low.
 
BlackInk said:
Could this be as simple as a bad spark plug?

Gonna grab a compression test on the way home from my oldest's football game.
Click to expand...

A bad or non firing plug can cause an imbalance rattle or ping when the engine is running, but it is not likely the case in your situation. If you had a dead plug, your check engine light would be lit and there would be a code for misfire on # cylinder. The compression tests will help us and you determine what the next step is. If you can get your hands on one or take it to the parts store... please do as Hatchet has instructed. Getting a good look at the current and/or pending codes will help.

When was your last oil change? Do you take it somewhere or do it yourself?
 
Remove the serpentine belt, start the engine and see if the noise goes away...likely will if there is a wobble. You can run the engine like this for a few moments when warm. When performing the compression test, take the first test dry, then add a few drops of oil and re-test. I didn't add any oil since all my readings were somewhat uniform, I probably should have just for comparison.
 
Water pump is definitely shot. Overheated engine for sure. Compression with be permanently altered.
 
Today I replaced the power steering pump (unrelated but needed to be done) the fan clutch and water pump. The water pump turned out to be fine and overheating has not been an issue. There was just the slightest wiggle in the fan, but no more. The steering is great. I just got an oil change Friday (my dealer has a quick lube that I always use), but the problem had been going on prior...now that I'm thinking about it, I went through more oil than normal. I use a high mileage blend.

The knock is still there. I grabbed a compression tester tonight, but will wait till tomorrow to check it out. Got to admit, I'm freaking out a little. Quick review with my parts guy shows I've got about 45,000 miles on my plugs, not a years worth. I'll try the screwdriver test tomorrow also as well as take a video.

Sigh.

Thanks everyone for all the help!
 
the roadie said:
Are you seeing something in a post I missed that said there was evidence of overheating as on the temp gauge in the past?
Click to expand...

Crap. Was thinking about something else. Never mind. Anyway. A wobbling water pump cant be good. I would think about replacing it soon.
 
Has anyone heard of a balancer going bad and making this noise? And how do I check it?

About to do the compression check. Wish me luck!
 
Ok, so cylinder number three has about half the compression of all the others.

What's my next step?

Thanks in advance.
 
BlackInk said:
Ok, so cylinder number three has about half the compression of all the others.

What's my next step?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Post the readings you got for each cylinder.

Next step is a "wet" compression test. Put a squirt or two of oil in the cylinder (I like to use two stroke oil but regular motor oil is fine).

If the reading stays the same, there's most likely something going on in the valve train.

If the reading comes up significantly, you're looking at worn rings as the most likely culprit.
 
They were all right around 200, Except #3 it was 115ish.

I'll do a wet test tonight. Didn't have any oil laying around.
 
Youre on the right track!

Do as Kawaholic recommended and do a wet test.

Let us know what you find!
 
What is that white residue, is it ash or a paste-like substance? Hard to tell by the pic but could be a head gasket. Do you know anyone with a borescope with a 9MM head? Perhaps even a gunsmith friend who may have a Hawkeye? Curious what the top of the piston looks like.
 
gmcman said:
What is that white residue, is it ash or a paste-like substance? Hard to tell by the pic but could be a head gasket. Do you know anyone with a borescope with a 9MM head? Perhaps even a gunsmith friend who may have a Hawkeye? Curious what the top of the piston looks like.
Click to expand...

Yes! It looked like ash. I'm curious as well. My brother in law is a gun smith, but he's 100+ miles away. Let me see what I can do.
 
Its running rich. Looks like the plugs are completely eroded and it is running rich. This thing needs a complete plug change, new o2 sensor, air filter change, throttle body clean and fuel filter. Some Chevron Techron Concentrate plus should blow out a lot of the carbon.
 
CaptainXL said:
Its running rich. Looks like the plugs are completely eroded and it is running rich. This thing needs a complete plug change, new o2 sensor, air filter change, throttle body clean and fuel filter. Some Chevron Techron Concentrate plus should blow out a lot of the carbon.
Click to expand...

NONE of this is going to magically restore the 85psi he's missing in #3 cylinder... Let's figure out where the compression's going before we start throwing parts at it...
 
I agree with kawaholic. But finding out what is causing the loss wont fix the issue.

Need to try and fix it the cheapest way possible before it becomes worse. Pulling the head should be the last option.

Get proactive. A tune up should be the first thing to do. This may halt or fix whatever is causing the compression loss.

Many times all that is needed is clean burn and combustion chamber cleaner with PEA to clean the valves. Such as Techron. Wouldnt hurt to run some BG 109 compression restorer.
 
I didn't get a chance to do the wet test tonight. I have some techtron and I had picked up some ac delco iridium plugs on sale awhile ago. I actually know the founder of BG and just text him about bye compression restorer.

How much oil are we taking here for the wet test? Like a teaspoon? I'll also do the push test and see if there's any play and let you all know what's going on.

Thanks everyone!
 
CaptainXL said:
I agree with kawaholic. But finding out what is causing the loss wont fix the issue.

Need to try and fix it the cheapest way possible before it becomes worse. Pulling the head should be the last option.

Get proactive. A tune up should be the first thing to do. This may halt or fix whatever is causing the compression loss.

Many times all that is needed is clean burn and combustion chamber cleaner with PEA to clean the valves. Such as Techron. Wouldnt hurt to run some BG 109 compression restorer.
Click to expand...

If hes got a burnt valve or rings that have worn down, none of those products will make any difference. And considering the engine is making a clacking noise, im willing to bet that the cylinder walls are beat to crap along with the piston, if it is the rings.

The only way a tune up and chemicals might help is if hes got a valve thats hanging due to carbon buildup.

Doing the wet compression test before throwing band aids at it will help to differentiate wether its rings or valvetrain. Even then, if it is a valvetrain issue, its best to pull the head and get it professionally repaired. If its carbon buildup causing a valve to hang, chemicals will only temporarily treat the problem. No amount of ring free, seafoam of carbon eating stuff can replace a good 3 angle and valve guide reaming.
 
BlackInk said:
How much oil are we taking here for the wet test? Like a teaspoon?
Click to expand...

Yep, that should do it. No more than a tablespoon. I use an oil can and just put like one or two pumps in there. You just want to make sure you get enough in there to get a good seal on the rings to the cylinder wall.
 
CaptainXL said:
I agree with kawaholic. But finding out what is causing the loss wont fix the issue.

Need to try and fix it the cheapest way possible before it becomes worse. Pulling the head should be the last option.

Get proactive. A tune up should be the first thing to do. This may halt or fix whatever is causing the compression loss.

Many times all that is needed is clean burn and combustion chamber cleaner with PEA to clean the valves. Such as Techron. Wouldnt hurt to run some BG 109 compression restorer.
Click to expand...

I hear you and I agree but until we get the results of the wet test, we don't know what the problem is. Never said anything about pulling the head. If compression is restored with the wet test, that tells me rings, possibly head gasket, etc... At that point a tune up and magic in a can isn't gonna do much, IMHO.

EDIT, ooops, I see chief beat me to it...LOL
 
. No amount of ring free, seafoam of carbon eating stuff can replace a good 3 angle and valve guide reaming.
Click to expand...

Agreed but lets not jump to conclusions. Some of these chemicals have their place. BG 109 has its place and might help here at restoring compression.

There is no scenario short of a hole in the piston which would keep me from using chemicals to try and cure the problem..

and by the way (aside from my recommendation) our options here are pretty limited

They all involve removing the head. Thats why I stated it. Lets think about this guys.
 
What was the sequence of the stalling...ie, low oil pressure then rattling or did the oil pressure drop with the low idle? Do you have access to a vacuum gauge? I would hook one up to the capped port on the front side of the intake..... if it pulls vacuum, may be blocked off internally. The other port is attached to the front side of the throttle body, you need to pinch the tabs to release it. This test will indicate if the intake valves are hanging open if the needle fluctuates rapidly.

That white deposit appears awfully brilliant and not gray, can you post a better pic? I would use the BG44K to clean the chambers IF everything checks out....hopefully the rattling is the cam from a hung up valve and can be cleaned. Seafoam would likely be the fastest cleaner followed by the 44K once it's running again. Hold off on the compression restore since the other cylinders appear good, focus on #3 first.

Edited to add, don't try to measure vacuum from the FPR hose on the left side of the intake resonator, it's the port facing the pass side between #1&2 cyl, or the TB hose.
 
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