Urgent! 05 Envoy Engine overheating/coolant too hot on way to work!

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POW

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Alright, so you may have seen my other post asking about 100K maintenance, well I have been out of town the last couple weeks and my Envoy hasn't been driven much at all & haven't gotten around to getting everything finished. Hoping that isn't what bit me in the behind this morning!


Here is a timeline of events on the way to work: (luckily all happened very close to my office & made it to office parking lot)

Driving on freeway at about 65mph, felt a vibration & noticed AC & power steering went out.
Battery icon came on dash & it read "Battery not charging"
About 30 seconds after right as I was slowing to hit my exit, coolant icon appeared & dash read "Coolant too hot" (or something like that)

At this point I was getting real nervous but luckily office is right off highway.. Came to a stop at a red light & just had to make one turn and drive a couple blocks to get to office.

While sitting at light, i noticed small amounts of smoke coming from under the hood & then dash dinged & read "engine overheating"

In the block or so drive to office it flashed "coolant too hot" & "Engine overheating" a couple times.

Pulled into parking lot & immediately shut it off, could hear a bubbling noise from under the hood. Popped open the hood & coolant was bubbling pretty good & noticed my entire belt was off its track.


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Not being the most mechanically inclined, & seeing as that I am 20+ miles from home I am assuming I probably need to get it towed to a shop (roadside assistance should cover that). Just want to get an idea of what to expect?

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I was actually just contacting a shop yesterday about them doing a coolant flush, thermostat & coolant temp sensor replacement so planning on having all that done regardless as well as a few other things... Note I understand I have no clue what I am talking about but don't know if I already caused damage to or could cause damage to the radiator or water pump??

---

Did the belt coming off cause all of this or something else which caused the belt to come off? Sorry for any dumb questions.

Appreciate any and all advice! THANK YOU!

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Edited to Add:

Note, while my CEL has been on in the past due to P0128 code.. It hasnt been on in a few weeks at all & did not ever turn on or flash during all of this.
 
I assume you have the 4.2 I6?
If your belt fell off or is gone, then you need to spin each component that spins to see if anything seized up.... your overheating is caused by the belt coming off, you have no cooling if the belt is not spinning your accessories.... Fan clutch and water pump are driven by the belt.... Check your belt tensioner for damage, if it turns out to be your belt, then $40 or so should do it....

Don't know if this was enough to damage anything, but first thing I would do is fix the belt issue and then see if there was damage before throwing money into the sensor and thermostat....
 
Did you pull the belt out? My thought would be that it simply broke and that would cause all of your symptoms. Hopefully, it broke and all you'll need is a new belt. If the belt isn't broke, check to see if you still have all of your pullies like the idler pulley and tensioner with pulley attached.
 
It sounds like your water pump froze up which is also what caused your belt to come off. While not a "maintance item", a lot of GMT360/370 owners with I6s replace the water pump at 100k even if it doesn't need it, because they tend to fail at that mileage range.
 
Thanks for all the replies!

So I am at work with no tools or anything. I can get a free tow to any shop.. I was going to have a shop do the coolant, thermostat, CTS anyways so might just take advantage of that now.

How much is a water pump?

I haven't pulled the belt out yet but should I just reach down there & simply pull it out? If belt is broke, hitch a ride to a auto parts store & try and put a new one on? Sorry for any dumb questions/sounding like an idiot.

---

Edited to add:

So looks like I would just need to pick up a 3/8 ratchet and a new belt & then try and figure out how to get the damn thing on. I'll search for some Youtube vids.
 
Try to pull it out. If it broke it's probably wrapped around the water pump/fan pulley. It might still be if it's not broke. And for replacing the belt if broke, if you have access to a decent breaker bar I think 3/8" drive (but I can't remember) then you should be able to do it in the parking, you just stick the head of the breaker bar into the square hole on the tensioner and pull it to the left iirc (can't remember that either, someone else would know if you can't tell) but it'll be a lot easier if you have a helper to either wrench the tensioner while you put the belt on or put the belt on while you wrench at it. Also, go ahead and put the belt on all but one pulley, then wrench the tensioner and slide the belt onto the last pulley.

Edit: you may ignore my ramblings about having a breaker bar and size of it. A ratchet will work too if you can pull it hard enough. Looks like you already know most of the drill! :tiphat:
 
Paid $40 for Delco w/p on amazon 4 months ago. Course you likely need one quicker.

When I have replaced the belt, I take the handle off the floor jack and use that to push down on the tensioner. So any strong pole-like item ought to do, special tool not required.

I also found that it was easiest when I threaded the belt over everything but the idler pulley, then pushed down on the tensioner and slipped it over the idler.

When my water pump went all the coolant came out of the pump, not bubbling up the radiator.
 
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Wishing you luck, and hope you choose an honest and competent shop. Slapping a new belt in there hoping nothing else is frozen up may be a disappointing parking lot project. Next time, I might recommend stopping ASAP even on the edge of the off-ramp. The smoke could have been transmission fluid spraying around, and when it hit the exhaust manifold, you could have lost the entire truck to the inevitable fire. Assuming you aren't carrying a fire extinguisher. All well-prepared offroaders have one or two of those.

The time you saved limping it to your office was a risky tradeoff unless you knew why it had failed.

And on the water pump price, none of our numbers will mean a thing when your mechanic is going to use his local favorite parts store, pay wholesale to the store, and then charge you full list price. I've seen water pumps that go for $200 dealer price. Be careful and negotiate.
 
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The_Roadie said:
Wishing you luck, and hope you choose an honest and competent shop. Slapping a new belt in there hoping nothing else is frozen up may be a disappointing parking lot project. Next time, I might recommend stopping ASAP even on the edge of the off-ramp. The smoke could have been transmission fluid spraying around, and when it hit the exhaust manifold, you could have lost the entire truck to the inevitable fire. Assuming you aren't carrying a fire extinguisher. All well-prepared offroaders have one or two of those.

The time you saved limping it to your office was a risky tradeoff unless you knew why it had failed.

And on the water pump price, none of our numbers will mean a thing when your mechanic is going to use his local favorite parts store, pay wholesale to the store, and then charge you full list price. I've seen water pumps that go for $200 dealer price. Be careful and negotiate.
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Thank you for the reply and to everyone else.

I have a tow coming bringing it to a shop that has good recs & talked to the owner already myself.

Hoping he can get it up and running with just a new belt & nothing else majorly wrong, and then I can go ahead and order all the parts myself for everything else I need to do & either do some myself or find another good mechanic to help me out.

Thanks for all the help again & will try to update later on.
 
Alrighty,

Here is to hoping I didn't get hosed... It is a smaller locally owned shop I brought it to that had good reviews & was recommended. I dealt 100% with the owner & he was a good guy. I enjoyed talking with him directly with everything.

Anyways, after they took a look they said that the water pump completely seized up and caused the belt to get torn up, both needing to be replaced. After reading about the water pump above with some of y'alls comments I actually believed him haha.

Like I said, I don't know how to do a lot of this stuff myself but want to learn, its just a matter of finding time & resources to do it alone so I went ahead and had the guy do quite a bit of stuff.

Here is everything:

New water pump
New belt
new Thermostat & housing
New coolant temp sensor
Transmission Flush
Coolant Flush

Anyone want to take a guess at what my bill is for all of that.... Parts and labor and everything? Oh and he gave me a free rental until I get it my car back tomorrow, which was nice. Take a guess at what you think all that cost me and I will respond later with the actual amount.

Once I get it back I need to tackle front diff/rear diff, transfer case, throttle body & plugs & it should be good for a while.

Thanks for all the help!
 
POW said:
Alrighty,

Here is to hoping I didn't get hosed... It is a smaller locally owned shop I brought it to that had good reviews & was recommended. I dealt 100% with the owner & he was a good guy. I enjoyed talking with him directly with everything.

Anyways, after they took a look they said that the water pump completely seized up and caused the belt to get torn up, both needing to be replaced. After reading about the water pump above with some of y'alls comments I actually believed him haha.

Like I said, I don't know how to do a lot of this stuff myself but want to learn, its just a matter of finding time & resources to do it alone so I went ahead and had the guy do quite a bit of stuff.

Here is everything:

New water pump
New belt
new Thermostat & housing
New coolant temp sensor
Transmission Flush
Coolant Flush

Anyone want to take a guess at what my bill is for all of that.... Parts and labor and everything? Oh and he gave me a free rental until I get it my car back tomorrow, which was nice. Take a guess at what you think all that cost me and I will respond later with the actual amount.

Once I get it back I need to tackle front diff/rear diff, transfer case, throttle body & plugs & it should be good for a while.

Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...
$778.32
 
I am Going to guess::

New water pump: $350 parts/labor (assuming you let mechanic provide part - this is ALWAYS wicked expensive.)
New belt: $50 (again - overpriced parts)
new Thermostat & housing $175
New coolant temp sensor $75
Transmission Flush $125
Coolant Flush $100 (though this should be ZERO since they already had to drain it for the thermostat replacement and water pump replacement, if they charged you for this I would get it back.)

For a grand total of: $875.

Ouch. That bites. I *REALLY* hope I am wrong. Could probably have done all this DIY or had a buddy do it that you could pay with pizza and beer for less than $300 in parts. I bet the tow was another 100-ish dollars...

Sorry man, hope it was cheaper than that and all is copasetic and the head didn't get warped (I doubt it did in such a short time)
 
Oh man.. maybe I did get hosed!

I think some of y'all haven't been in a shop in so long you don't even realize how much more they rip us non-mechanical folks off!

I have asked three different shops what they charge for a transmission flush in the last two weeks.. The first guy told me $250, second guy told me $235. This guy charged me $160. The same three for coolant flush told me $150, 130, & 120.

Anyways, back to the pricing...

Water pump - $60 for parts + 3.1 hrs of labor at $98/hr so about $370 total
Belt - $40
Thermostat/housing/CTS came to about to about $65 in parts & charged 1 hr of labor so $165 total.
Transmission flush - $160
Coolant - $20

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Total: $750

---

When I left there I felt the one thing I really feel like I got hosed on was probably the 3 hrs of labor charged for the water pump but I didn't exactly have a lot of options. All of his techs work on commission & I understand the guy has to make some money off me regardless. The tow was covered by insurance. He gave me the rental for free & will have mine ready for tomorrow. I also know these guys make some good money off the transmission/coolant flushes & he was the cheapest of the three different shops I asked so I guess that is what it is. I wish I had a buddy that knew how to do all this close to me or someone that could teach me but unfortunately that isn't the case right now.

I understand its the premium I have to pay for not knowing how to do it myself. This will only further motivate me to learn. Heck I make $90-120 an hr teaching 7 yr olds how to play lacrosse giving private lessons after my day job. Here in TX it is still a growing sport & 98% of all parents have no clue how to coach their kid, me playing college lacrosse & being in an area without much competition means I can charge high rates & the parents will pay it. Kinda the same with these car guys I guess.

Thanks for all the help. Interested to hear y'alls responses to these prices lol.
 
The water pump sometimes gets time consuming with the fan shroud not wanting to come out....3 hrs is a bit too much though...
 
Ya.. One thing the guy did mention & he told me that they wouldn't know until everything else was going was if the fan clutch would need to be replaced or not. Is there a good chance y'all think that would possibly need to be replaced as well?

& ya, I figured 3 hrs is probably more than it'll really take but also thought the 1 hr labor for the thermostat & CTS was fairly reasonable. I have heard of people on trailvoy saying it took 'em 4+ hrs!

Thanks!
 
POW said:
Ya.. One thing the guy did mention & he told me that they wouldn't know until everything else was going was if the fan clutch would need to be replaced or not. Is there a good chance y'all think that would possibly need to be replaced as well?

& ya, I figured 3 hrs is probably more than it'll really take but also thought the 1 hr labor for the thermostat & CTS was fairly reasonable. I have heard of people on trailvoy saying it took 'em 4+ hrs!

Thanks!
Click to expand...
When my WP went out, I didn't replace the clutch, 2 yrs later still humming....

getting to the thermo looks like it would be a lot easier on a lift...
 
$98/hr... wow!!! I've seen stuff floating up in the 60-70 range here and back home at most, that's pretty crazy.
 
IllogicTC said:
$98/hr... wow!!! I've seen stuff floating up in the 60-70 range here and back home at most, that's pretty crazy.
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Are you kidding? Most shops around here charge $120 or $110 an hr. You don't find them cheaper than $98 unless I guess you are way outside any sort of city.
 
POW said:
Are you kidding? Most shops around here charge $120 or $110 an hr. You don't find them cheaper than $98 unless I guess you are way outside any sort of city.
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That's probably it. I think the highest I've personally seen posted is $85, and that was on one of those "$65 to work on it, $75 if you watch, $85 if you worked on it first!" maybe-joke-maybe-not signs.
 
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Thanks for the details. Sort of motivates you to buy a buncho tools and cultivate friends and apprentice yourself to them for the NEXT time, like brake pads or plugs or other fluid maintenance like the transfer case that needs changing every 50K.
 
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Getting "hosed" is relative. If there is an issue with the work, you can go back to the shop for warranty coverage. If you "hose" yourself with a faulty repair you performed, you spend more time and money to correct it. So you learn a good lesson about preventative maintenance. The guys on this site are an awesome resource. Heck, there is one guy (shout out to May03lt) who took his own truck apart to help another gent troubleshoot several states away. Look up Mooseman, he has the manuals (belated Thanks!) Pay attention to what Roadie says. Now get some tools, watch some videos, and change all your fluids
 
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X2 on MAY03LT. He has a YouTube channel which he uploads videos to from work that he's done on his two GMT's. He also shows how to troubleshoot parts and normally draws out a wiring diagram when he's poking at wires so you can see what they all hook to and such. The name of his YouTube channel is MAY03LT if you ever wanna look him up some time.
 
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Sorry for the delay. Yes, I have seen MAY03LT's videos & plan to use them for the next stuff I do.

Anyways, update on everything that happened. On Monday night I noticed some coolant leaking from radiator. Called the owner of that shop first thing on Tuesday morning & he told me to bring it by. They were packed busy, he immediately got it in & had a look. Said they couldn't find any loose hoses or connections & were 95% sure I needed a new radiator. Asked him how much, how long etc... He said he wouldn't charge me labor since they (possibly) missed it the other day (or caused it?) & he would put me in a rental again for free, my car would be ready the next day. Called his part guy said it was gonna be $153. A minute later he looked at me and said I am going to comp everything no charge.

Got the free rental & was out of there in less than an hour & picked my Envoy up the next day. I looked though on other parts of the driveway I had parked on Saturday night/Sunday/Monday & couldn't find any other spill spots, so I don't believe it started leaking until some point Monday. My car was parked all day on the driveway Sunday & I was outside all day working on my wifes car right next to it so surely I would have noticed it. Anyways....

So...

New Radiator
New Water pump
New Belt
New thermostat/housing
New CTS
Full Transmission flush
Full Coolant flush

All parts/labor/fluids...

$750.
 
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Good deal, sound like this owner in one of more honest shops, go a head and learn what you can but for the harder jobs go back to him and refer them and let them know. Always good to have good place to take your TB too.
 
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tbyoda said:
Good deal, sound like this owner in one of more honest shops, go a head and learn what you can but for the harder jobs go back to him and refer them and let them know. Always good to have good place to take your TB too.
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Agreed, and the more you get to know them and definitely the more business you bring by them, you may learn a few things or get a few perks, whether it's the "rubbing-elbows" deal of a few percent off your bill, or any number of other things.
 
Outstanding! Glad to hear you didn't get "hosed". Sounds like you found a good honest guy who knows how to treat his customers right.
 
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