Winter Gas
- Thread starter twinners
- Start date
twinners said:
Unless it is ethanol free or something with less ethanol, higher octane gas will never result in increased mileage unless the engine is designed to take advantage of it. Some stations have ethanol free premium gas.
Better mileage is also relative to the cost of the fuel. You need to take into consideration the additional cost of premium which will almost never equate to the fuel savings.
Summer gas always wins because it has more gasoline component (more BTU energy) compared to winter gas which is diluted with butane (lower BTU). Butane is added in the winter to increase the Reid Vapor Pressure to facilitate cold starts. Butane is added to both regular and premium gas in the winter so the whole issue is mute.
The solution would be to stock up and use summer gas for winter use. Then you would get better mileage.
northcreek
Member
Apart from the pricing issue, winter-grade gasoline does yield slightly less energy than the summer blend, but only by about 1.7 percent on average, according to the EPA. Ethanol's impact is far greater, dropping energy content — and fuel mileage — by more like 30 percent. Still, winter-blend gas imposes its minimal loss on every gallon your engine burns, whereas E10 is a blend of 90 percent gasoline and only 10 percent ethanol, which mitigates ethanol's mileage-lowering quality.
Another reason it's difficult to determine the degree to which seasonal gas formulations affect mileage is that other factors come to play, and with greater impact. An ice-cold engine needs a "richer" gas-air mixture to fire up and idle, and until the engine reaches operating temperature, you're burning more gas compared with startups in the lazy, hazy days of summer. Factors other than winter-blend gas can cut far deeper into mileage — by 20 percent or more — according to the EPA. These include excessive idling (no need to "warm up the engine" in cars made in the last decade or so) and poor road conditions, as well as non-seasonal issues such as lead-foot acceleration, traffic congestion, engine efficiency (need a tuneup?), tire pressure, head winds and hills.
At the end of the road, it's unlikely that winter-blend gas by itself is crimping your mileage in a significant way. You might be able to boost your cold-weather mileage by addressing some of the other matters.
Another reason it's difficult to determine the degree to which seasonal gas formulations affect mileage is that other factors come to play, and with greater impact. An ice-cold engine needs a "richer" gas-air mixture to fire up and idle, and until the engine reaches operating temperature, you're burning more gas compared with startups in the lazy, hazy days of summer. Factors other than winter-blend gas can cut far deeper into mileage — by 20 percent or more — according to the EPA. These include excessive idling (no need to "warm up the engine" in cars made in the last decade or so) and poor road conditions, as well as non-seasonal issues such as lead-foot acceleration, traffic congestion, engine efficiency (need a tuneup?), tire pressure, head winds and hills.
At the end of the road, it's unlikely that winter-blend gas by itself is crimping your mileage in a significant way. You might be able to boost your cold-weather mileage by addressing some of the other matters.
DocBrown
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Premium, unless your vehicle's manual states you can use it, doesn't do much other than lighten your wallet. Even "premium optional" cars don't always get better mileage with premium. My Cadillac Catera was premium optional. It had noticeably more power when I used premium but the mileage was no different. My '06 HHR is also premium optional. With premium, it has improved power at freeway speeds and gets slightly better mileage. When premium was .20 cents a gallon more than 87, it actually saved my about $200 a year. Now that it's .30 - .40 more, I don't bother using it.
muddy tires
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CaptainXL said:
The gas would probably go bad before you used it all. Gas has a fairly short shelf life.
northcreek
Member
CaptainXL said:
Perhaps the airport gas has no ethanol in it if you are talking AV gas.
Gasoline Expiration - Ethanol Blend Fuels Have a Short Shelf Life
tblazerdude
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- Dec 4, 2011
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northcreek said:
I do small engine repairs from time to time and the number one reason something won't start is the gas from last season is still in the tank. Maybe there are special tanks, but your average plastic gas can or vehicle fuel tank will not promote fuel shelf life.
For those of you that watch it's always sunny in philadelphia, this reminds me of that.
[video]http://www.hulu.com/watch/37195[/video]
We can debate this all day.
But the fact of the matter is that any type of gas will hold up if it is in a properly sealed container with no way for air to get to it. Oxygen and humidity both kill gas. We know that. Just store it properly. Preferably in a cool & dry location.
But the fact of the matter is that any type of gas will hold up if it is in a properly sealed container with no way for air to get to it. Oxygen and humidity both kill gas. We know that. Just store it properly. Preferably in a cool & dry location.
Mark20
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I noticed a drop in MPG on my trip home from NYC/LI this past week. I'll keep an eye on it but I suspect its the winter blend and less BTU per gallon.
Gasoline will still burn after it is stored for years but does not burn as well as fresh and I suspect leaves a lot more junk behind. A friend gave me an old gas can with 1.5 gallons of 10 or more year old gas in it. It smells more like varnish than gasoline. I burned some of it off in a tiki torch and have been mixing very small amounts with my leaf blower and soon my snow blower fuel. The gas I keep on hand for the power equipment and generator (which I may very well need this weekend) is treated with Sta-Bil as soon as I buy it. If their specs are to be believed, the gas will stay fresh for a year after mixing it in. I try to cycle it a more frequently than that.
Gasoline will still burn after it is stored for years but does not burn as well as fresh and I suspect leaves a lot more junk behind. A friend gave me an old gas can with 1.5 gallons of 10 or more year old gas in it. It smells more like varnish than gasoline. I burned some of it off in a tiki torch and have been mixing very small amounts with my leaf blower and soon my snow blower fuel. The gas I keep on hand for the power equipment and generator (which I may very well need this weekend) is treated with Sta-Bil as soon as I buy it. If their specs are to be believed, the gas will stay fresh for a year after mixing it in. I try to cycle it a more frequently than that.
northcreek
Member
Mark20 said:
Burning old gas in a 2-stroke is a good way to melt a piston. I did it on an snowmobile using last years gas. When I went to buy new pistons the guy looked at me and said, "RUNNING OLD GAS EH"?
From what I gather, old gas runs hotter and air cooled engines do not have the ability overcome it...Mike.
Stale gas is good for washing parts and starting camp fires.....
northcreek said:
Your joking right? last years gas wouldn't be bad. Maybe 5 year old gas. I use old gas in my 2 cycle stuff all the time. The only way to melt a 2 stroke is to use the wrong oil mixture. That dipshit salesman doesn't know what old gas really is, nor what he is talking about.
I have personally seen a drop from 18.5 mpg this summer to 16.5 this winter. I did not realize how much affect winter gas has on mpg until watching it closely last year. Not sure what other reason there would be to lose 2 mpg.
If you have five year old gas for lawn equipment, someone is slacking on their chores haha. Captain is right, having the wrong oil/fuel mixture would be detrimental to the life of the two stroke.
If you have five year old gas for lawn equipment, someone is slacking on their chores haha. Captain is right, having the wrong oil/fuel mixture would be detrimental to the life of the two stroke.
northcreek
Member
CaptainXL said:
Wrong, not joking..... and that parts guy has probably more small engine experience than you and me combined. Point is that the newer 2 strokes specify high octane ratings and old gas will lose octane in storage. Metal cans are better for preserving octane than plastic.
I appreciate being frugal as much as the next guy but, for the small amount of fuel used by power equipment I choose to save $ elsewhere and use 91 octane non-e fuel for my equipment ....but hey! everyone is free to do whatever they want...just throwing my experiences out there.
strat81
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CaptainXL said:
NATO gas cans are an excellent way to store gasoline, albeit pricey. They seal completely, thus preventing the evaporation of the compounds that make gasoline so wonderfully explosive. They also prevent oxygen and moisture from reaching the fuel.
Beware of cheap Chinese "NATO" cans. Most quality 20L cans sell for about $50 each. Atlantic British and Old Grouch Surplus are two sources of new, quality cans.
RayVoy
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You can't blame most of this loss on winter gas. The colder a vehile is, the harder it is to move. Thick engine oil, cold transmission fluid, think rear end grease, thick front diff (if you have 4WD), all create horsepower loss problems. We don't have carbs any more, but we still have the requirement for a choke (on the old carbs, a choke cut off air, producing a richer mixture). Today's PCM just opens the injector for a longer period, resulting in a richer mixture.dmanns67 said:
You can't blame the gas, summer blend would have the same loss.
E10 reduces fuel economy by approximately 1.5% roughly give or take depending on model. Not much.
Why is the fuel economy of an automobile worse in the winter than in the summer?: Scientific American
This scenario is the bane of many including myself. I drive 10 minute trips most of the time and only get about 220 miles a tank. Roughly 9-10 miles per gallon in the winter. Summer it goes up to 12-13 mpg. This is all city driving of course.
Aside from warming up the vehicle idling, low tire pressures and parasitic drag of the fluid and tires, probably the biggest factor is that when air is denser/cooler it requires more fuel to meet stoich.
Why is the fuel economy of an automobile worse in the winter than in the summer?: Scientific American
This scenario is the bane of many including myself. I drive 10 minute trips most of the time and only get about 220 miles a tank. Roughly 9-10 miles per gallon in the winter. Summer it goes up to 12-13 mpg. This is all city driving of course.
Aside from warming up the vehicle idling, low tire pressures and parasitic drag of the fluid and tires, probably the biggest factor is that when air is denser/cooler it requires more fuel to meet stoich.
RedEnvoyDenali
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CaptainXL said:
You are very much correct, except up here we don't get cold snaps, we get warm snaps inside the nasty continuous cold for 4 months.LOL I wish my mileage only went down 3-4.
